Front Differential Issue

[Thai]

:evil: buy a Mercedes ML 320 CDI.
Sorry to say that, but I need a reliable Offroad car and not a fancy toy.

Georg

Well, sorry to disappoint, but the ML320 may not be any more reliable than your RR. I would seriously consider something from Toyota if you really want something reliable. If you still want to go with MB, then get the G-wagen...but, i would stay away from G400 model for reliability issue with the diesel engine.

[Moto One]

As far as the RRS, we did drive one (RRSC) and it was very nice.. But the dealer thought way to much of it (it was used 4k) and the price was still almost $75k. I tryed to do something with the Fresno dealer that worked on the RR, on a RRS (White with the 20in wheels) and there offer for mine on trade was half of book. So today I'm off to Porsche to see about working a deal on a Cayanne S, if its still there (a very nice dark gray with all the options (really ugly wheels thou) and if they can't work the numbers, (book for trade in) it looks like a GMC Denali XL. (it's a lot of truck for the buck) and it's also almost a straight trade, just tax/reg, and extended warrenty.

I hate to say it but I'm up aginst time here, I have to leave on a trip tomorrow and will not be back untill mid month, so today is do or die.

Buy the way if anyone is going to the San Diego or LA auto shows stop by the BMW display, I'm the Motorad rep.(motorcycle)

Mark.

[ferrarislave]

Is the differential issue still a problem on 2006 Range Rovers?

[Moto One]

They say not, but I don't think anyone has put enough miles on one yet. Looking under a 2006, I didn't see any difference in the layout or parts.

Mark.

[ferrarislave]

What exactly is happening to the front differential and why is it happening? There has to be someone here with extensive experience with the mechanics of the RR and its front differential.

[British_Rover]

What exactly is happening to the front differential and why is it happening? There has to be someone here with extensive experience with the mechanics of the RR and its front differential.

I will ask our shop foreman about the front diff issue when he gets back from vacation next week. I know we have had a few cars with the issue but off hand I can't think of any vehicles that have had multiple front diffs.

[ferrarislave]

please do I would like to know... Also who manufactures the front axle for the LR?

[ZandersRover]

I say we get a class action suite going to get LRNA to fix this Golly Gee Whiz before someone ends up dead! I have zero faith in the Rover. Just think going down the highway and loosing all control of your car. It has been a proven problem and they don't care. Anyone want to check into this?

[ranger4]

Folks, thanks for this good discussion on the continuing saga of the front diff failures.

If it is true that Land Rover is still without a real solution, perhaps we could add some info to the writeup at http://www.rangerovers.net/rrmkiiiremedies.html#diff (or write a new page on the subject). For example, can anyone describe the symptoms they experienced when this happened? Was there any warning? Also does it freeze up the drivetrain so you can't move it at all, etc etc?

Another thing to think about is what emergency measures we might be able to suggest for folks that have this happen out in the wilds etc -- eg would disconnecting the front driveshaft help, etc.

If Land Rover fails entirely to come up with a solution, and after they stop fixing it for free, we might even ask one of the J**p aftermarket specialists to come up with a better design for the front drive shaft with a U joint or CV joint at each end.

Many thanks for any help you can give

Cheers

John

[RRuser]

John,

Based upon personal experience, this failure mode yields no warning, no symptoms, and total disabling of the drive train. I have been told by LR technicians that there is no field fix period. So.... if you are remote, off road too bad. This is a critical reliability and, more importantly, a critical safety issue. I currently get nothing but the cold shoulder from my dealer and LR. I think they are concerned that a group will get together and sue them so they are saying nothing of note. As consumers we have no choice but to go through the government channels on this as well as insure that no one buys one of these vehicles until the issue is fixed.

Porsche has the same issue with the rear main seal on the engine in 911 and Boxsters. They have gotten away with it because these vehicles are not driven very much and one replacement will last about another 3-5 years so the vehicle is nearly 10 years old before a second replacement is necessary. With the MK III RR, many are driven more and multiple replacements will be needed. Hopefully this will become an economic burden and lead to action on the part of LR. I will not be holding my breath.... our RR is for sale at the earliest opportunity that minimizes our economic hit. I cannot reccomend this vehicle to anyone, in fact whenever anyone asks about ours I tell them to never buy one and to make sure that if they know anyone considering one to strongly dissuade them.

[Thrasher]

I say the same about Ford. It's not true of all Fords ... just like your statement is not true of all Land Rovers.

In fact.....can you name a manufacturer that doesn't have issues with *ANY* of it's vehicles on the road?

Mechanical things wear out/break/fail - deal with it. Most of these diff failures seem to occur in the US .. I suppose us Brits work ours to the limit, unless you have invented corners and roundabouts in America <grin>, and hence they don't fail

Yes it is an expensive car (don't I know it - paid in full!), and yes it is complex - but heck - it's NOT A LIMO - it is an OFFROAD vehicle, designed to be both. Sure go out and buy a Ferrari - but it's ONLY a car - it is designed to do ONE thing. Buy a Lexus - same deal, buy a BMW - same deal. Buy a Land Rover and you buy a package - and yes - that package includes a warranty to cover what they know *will* fail if the vehicle is used as a Soccer Mom vehicle.....*or* used offroad....

AS I say - you pay your money. If a REAL multi-purpose vehicle is not for you - don't buy one.....buy an X5 or some other pretend 4x4

[RRuser]

FYI...... not a soccer (football) mom. Do not even have any children.

We do take the vehicle off road regularly (to class V kayaking venues) and this is partly the basis of my safety concern with respect to the front diff. Were I climbing a steep section on a cliffside (something that is very typical in the western US) it could clearly lead to death.

This is not a wearout issue.... this is a critical design flaw (probably German in origin) that will leave you totally stranded.

I should like to hear your response after you have been stranded 200 miles from nowhwere on a difficult off road trek, with multiple injuries after falling off a hillside!!!

Good luck but plaese stay on the paved road with your MkIII RR.

[thebishman]

I was under the impression that it WAS a mileage failure concern. Meaning that these do not fail until one had 20K - 30K miles on the RR.

Mine was replaced under warranty at the 30K service just because of the VIN of the RR. It had not failed on me. I just asked if mine COULD have been prone to failure, the service adviser checked and said it was unsafe to drive home, they'd order parts for it, and I picked it up 2 days later.

I think we've had one person report that the replaced front diff failed soon, (approximately 5K - 6K miles), after it had been initially replaced, but I almost believe that this sounds more like an inadequate reair/replacement the first time.

I do agree however that if LR believes/knows that every Mark III RR will suffer catastrophic front differential failure within 50K miles, then LR should order a recall for all Mark III's that could be affected. If they don't and someone gets killed over this known issue, it will cost them millions.

I wonder if the NHTSA is following this issue.
Bish

[RRuser]

Perhaps you would like to consider it a wear out issue, but I shall put it in the category of infant mortality (using the jargon of the Reliability Engineering profession). Infant mortals are parts/systems that fail early in their expected life, prior to any substantial expected wear out processes. If LR believes that the life of this compnent is in fact 20-30K miles then they should be proactively replacing them every 15K miles to ensure that they catch them all prior to failure. I do not think that you could make a business case for such a program. Rather, one would redesign and retrofit the existing vehicles. Not so for LR (at least at this point).

Any reasonable life expectation for a critical component such as the front diff is well above the 20-30K mile figure, probably the life should be more like 100K miles or more. As far as I know you are the only person who has reported proactive replacement of the front diff. The dealers in Phoenix, AZ and Boise, ID will only check the front diff alignment. They will not take it apart to inspect the splines, claiming that they will not be reimbursed by LR for such a proactive inspection, I know because I have requested such inspections.

As I have said on this forum previously; I truly enjoy this vehicle when it is working, and I am willing to put up with the typical issues and annoyances that are extent with virtually all vehicles (particularly complex ones like the RR). But having been stranded hundreds of miles from home 4 times in the last year (two EAS failures, one front diff failure (and near accident), and one oil filter housing failure) I cannot reasonably continue with this vehicle. I may have a lemon, but given the other reports on this forum, I expect this is not true. On a humorous note, I will not mention the continuous badgering I recieve from my colleagues when I fail to show up at the office for days while stranded !!!

Good luck Bish, I wish you well and hope for continued trouble-free RR driving.

[thebishman]

Thanks for the encouragement.
I actually have traded my '03 RR with 32K miles on it for a '06 RRS S/C. I thought about keeping it for another year until the warranty was 'out', but wanted the extra 'sportiness' of the RRS S/C.

My experience of my early '03, (I picked it up in July of 2002), was very different from yours. It was essentially completely trouble free from the moment I drove it home. I had an auxillary air pump, (part of the emission control system), failure right at the start of my ownership experience, but it only caused a warning light to stay on, and never interferred with the running of the vehicle. Other than a couple of rattles and wind noise, it was buttleproof.
At the scheduled 30K mile service, which I had done at 32K miles, I asked whether the truck could be stricken with the diff failure. When the service tech checked the VIN, they then tore apart the front diff and said it was about to fail, and was unsafe to drive. Hence new parts were 'overnighted', and I was on my way 2 days later. I did feel that the steering effort was markedly lessened after the components were replaced.

I do agree with you that I am very disappointed with the reports of the front diff failures noted here. It is far more than a simple 'inconvenience', and as you say could be a life threatening event. As such, LR had best make sure that redesigned parts are not afflicted with the same failure as the originals. Why there has not been some kind of recall is a mystery to me, UNLESS the number of failures are actually low.
Bish